Boje?

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EsoX
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Boje?

Postby EsoX » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:48 am

Koliko je po vasem iskustvu vazna boja imitacije kako za plivajuce muve na povrsini tako i za one u samoj vodi? Da li riba uoste ralikuje boje ili sve vidi samo u nijansama sive? Koliko je vazno prilagoditi boju svetlosnim uslovi, intenzitetu uglu pod kojim svetlost pada....???
"Pike looks like, acts like, and is a top-level predator. Just as you are. Flyfishing for pike is a contest between equals." Barry Reynolds

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Šaš_Slo
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Boje?

Postby Šaš_Slo » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:35 am

photoreception [Vision]. Fish have a very keen sense of vision, which helps them to find food, shelter, mates, and avoid predators. Fish vision is on par with our own vision; many can see in color, and some can see in extremely dim light.

Fish eyes are different from our own. Their lenses are perfectly spherical, which enables them to see underwater because it has a higher refractive index to help them focus. They focus by moving the lens in and out instead of stretching it like we do. They cannot dilate or contract their pupils because the lens bulges through the iris. As the depth at which fish are found increases, the resident fish's eye sizes increase in order to gather the dimmer light. This process continues until the end of the photic zone, where eye size drops off as their is no light to see with. Nocturnal fish tend to have larger eyes then diurnal fish. Just look at a squirrelfish, and you will see this to be so. Some fish have a special eye structure known as the Tapetum lucidum, which amplifies the incoming light. It is a layer of guanine crystals which glow at night. Photons which pass the retina get bounced back to be detected again. If the photons are still not absorbed, they are reflected back out of the eye. On a night dive, you may see these reflections as you shine your light around!

How Do Fish Sense from:
http://www.geocities.com/aquarium_fish/ ... _sense.htm

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flydoc
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Postby flydoc » Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:47 am

Vidim Dane u pola price nas pretekao :wink:
Dakle, i meni nije jos uvek jasno kao i mnogim na planeti kako boje vide ribe. Citao sam da ribe to vide kao nijanse od crnog do belog, mislim da vide nijanse u sivim, ili u drugim nekim nijansama recimo od plave do..
Mada kod pastrmke jeste na prvo mesto silueta i prezentacija pa onda ove nijanse ili ne?
Voleo bih da cujem misljenja i drugih clanova.

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flydoc
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Re: Boje?

Postby flydoc » Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:12 am

Šaš_Slo wrote:photoreception [Vision]. Fish have a very keen sense of vision, which helps them to find food, shelter, mates, and avoid predators. Fish vision is on par with our own vision; many can see in color, and some can see in extremely dim light.

Fish eyes are different from our own. Their lenses are perfectly spherical, which enables them to see underwater because it has a higher refractive index to help them focus. They focus by moving the lens in and out instead of stretching it like we do. They cannot dilate or contract their pupils because the lens bulges through the iris. As the depth at which fish are found increases, the resident fish's eye sizes increase in order to gather the dimmer light. This process continues until the end of the photic zone, where eye size drops off as their is no light to see with. Nocturnal fish tend to have larger eyes then diurnal fish. Just look at a squirrelfish, and you will see this to be so. Some fish have a special eye structure known as the Tapetum lucidum, which amplifies the incoming light. It is a layer of guanine crystals which glow at night. Photons which pass the retina get bounced back to be detected again. If the photons are still not absorbed, they are reflected back out of the eye. On a night dive, you may see these reflections as you shine your light around!

How Do Fish Sense from:
http://www.geocities.com/aquarium_fish/ ... _sense.htm



Ovo si mogao barem da prevedes. Svi znamo da koristimo google i copy/paste!

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simpson H
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Postby simpson H » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:02 am

Ma nije problem sto je copy/paste nego u tome ko je pisao ovo? Zasto bi ovaj tekst bio merodavan, ja sam video bezbroj slicnih ali se sve svodi na pretpostavke po konstrukciji oka. A ono sto je najvaznije-boja, niko sa sigurnoscu ne tvrdi kako ribe raspoznaju boje.
"A good gamefish is too valuable to be caught only once"- Lee Wulff 1938.

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pex
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Postby pex » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:11 am

Veoma zanimljiva tema...sto duze pecam sve vise sumnjam da se riba (salmonidna) previse oslanja na boje pri hranjenju.Cini mi se da je izuzetak lipljan jer ga je nemoguce prevariti u brzaku na nesto sto on tr. ne jede.Sa druge strane za pastrmku je bitna silueta i velicina (licno moje misljenje i iskustvo) samo da recimo boje nisu previse razlicite od prirodnog insekta...i naravno veliki uticaj ima brzina vode.Diskutabilno je je i koliko utice jacina svetla u neko doba dana i bistroca vode.Voleo bih da cujem i jos misljenja na ovu temu,pogotovu zato sto sam lovio na muve koje u tom tr. i nema na vodi,druge boje i imao veoma dobar rezultat.A znam i iskustva varalicara koji u nasem uzickom kraju prave varalice za klena,pastrmku i mladicu cije znanje i tvrdoglavost islo do te mere da su lovili velike mladice i pastrmke na Drini na varalice obojene samo "sedef" zastitom.Da li tu utice brzina i instikt ribe da se hrani vise nego boja ili nesto drugo?Licno sam lovio na potpuno belu!!! muvu uspesno kao i na verne prirodne kada sumrak predje u mrak...ima dosta tu meni manje-vise jasnih-nejasnih stvari....

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sale
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Postby sale » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:19 am

boja je izuzetno vazna , kao i oblik musice to je dokazano
cak i u mraku riba raspoznaje boju ,sad kako ona to vidi ne znam
ali da raspoznaje boje to je sigurno ,cak je nijansa u pitanju da li ce da je uzme ili da se predomisli
sale-eurofish

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simpson H
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Postby simpson H » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:30 pm

sale wrote:boja je izuzetno vazna , kao i oblik musice to je dokazano
cak i u mraku riba raspoznaje boju ,sad kako ona to vidi ne znam
ali da raspoznaje boje to je sigurno ,cak je nijansa u pitanju da li ce da je uzme ili da se predomisli


Sale, najgore od svega sto definitivno nije dokazano. na zalost savremena nauka nema precizan odgovor na ovo pitanje i sve se zasniva na pretpostavkama.
One varijante sa ishranom i bojama su smesne i nepouzdane ali niko nije utvrdio da riba vidi da je zuto=zuto, crveno=crveno, ciklama=ciklama :D
"A good gamefish is too valuable to be caught only once"- Lee Wulff 1938.

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pex
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Postby pex » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:45 am

Ja sam po tom pitanju pristalica fizike...riba ima oko i to oko radi.na boje utice jacina svetlosti.to bi trebalo znaciti da ne moze razlikovati boje u mraku??? Ili mozda moze ali do odredjene mere,infrared nema to je sigurno a i da ima vestacka "muha" je ipak vestacka.Ali ima jedna interesantna stvar gde je nekada neko video jednodnevku po mraku??? :D Ako ih nema onda ni vestacka NE TREBA DA SE POJEDE. "(prim.prev.)"Interesantan zakljucak zar ne ali da bi se ova tvrdnja dokazala u svetu fizike treba probati recimo nimfu u nekoj boji mada je veoma moguce da se uopste salmonidi ne oslanjaju uvek samo i iskljucivo na vid pri hranjenju sto je i dokazano.ne mozes najboljom imitacijom insekta uloviti ribu losim vodjenjem...

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sale
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Postby sale » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:29 pm

ja nisam mislio naucno dokazano ,to me uopste ne interesuje
mislio sam na prakticno dokazano da boja ima veze .
>gde je nekada neko video jednodnevku po mraku??? >
a odakle tebi pex da lipljan smo jede jednodnevke , i otkud znas da sam na jednodnevke mislio , cak su na reci gde ja pecam vrlo malo zastupljene u ishrani lipljena ,
sale-eurofish

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pex
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Postby pex » Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:36 pm

Pa i nisam mislio na nucno dokazivanje to je samo razmisljanje i vidjenje stvari,a i zasto bi se bilo ko slozio sa tim,naravno da boja ima veze ali koliko i kada a sto se lipljana tice bilo sta da jede mora biti neke boje jednodnevka ili ne nisam mislio iskljucivo na te vrste prve, su mi pale na pamet....mozemo siriti pricu u nedogled i opet cemo svi misliti ovako ili onako...stvari su takve kakve jesu i u tome jeste car ribolova...

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simpson H
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Postby simpson H » Thu May 15, 2008 11:08 am

Zivo me zanima da se nastavi diskusija na ovu temu.

Proteklog vikenda sam imao dodatno iskustvo na Ribniku u vezi boja musice. Sto mrzim kada demantujem sam sebe jer sam ceo zivot tvrdio da je moguce da ribe vide neke nijanse ali brate ovo je vec bilo dramaticno.
Imao sam dve potpuno iste musice, na istoj velicini udice, sasvim identicno vezane, isti materijal koriscen, jedina razlika je u nijansi tela. Ne u boji vec u nijansi, jedna je bila malo vise crvena dok je druga vukla na bordo. Jedna lovi razbija a pored druge ribe prolaze kao pored spomenika. Kako je to moguce?
"A good gamefish is too valuable to be caught only once"- Lee Wulff 1938.

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pex
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Postby pex » Thu May 15, 2008 7:33 pm

Jel' bio suncan dan? Ako nije onda jeste zanimljivo ali ako jeste ne cudi me da po jakom svetlu razlikuje riba i nijanse.Verovatno je u pitanju lipljan a on ima oko vece 50% od ostalih riba....sve je moguce :shock:
ODGOVARAM SAMO ZA ONO STO SAM REKAO, NE I ZA ONO STO STE VI RAZUMELI...

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sale
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Postby sale » Thu May 15, 2008 9:05 pm

bio je suncan dan, voda kao staklo masna ,riba na nesto manje od metra dubine :D
bas sam i ja gledao kako dolazi do muve i vraca se nazad ,dok ne nadjes pravu onda upecas jednu ili dve ribe ,pa promeni muvu i jovo nanovo
mada ni to nije lose .
sale-eurofish

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brankoogi
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Re: Boje?

Postby brankoogi » Sat May 30, 2009 9:35 pm

Pričali mi bjelopoljski tirolaši da im je lipac čak i noću uzimao boju koju je gađao u toku dana i samo i isključivo tu :?: Nemogu ni ja da verujem da čak i noću razlikuje boje ali izgleda da je tako.Što se tiče siluete bjelopoljci love isključivo na tularoša samo u različitim bojama :!:


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